LOVE JONES
One of the breakout publishing execs of the last few years, Walter Jones recently joined Jon Platt’s Sony Music Publishing team as EVP, Head of A&R, after a tenure at UMPG that included the signing and development of H.E.R., Lil Baby and more. His present stint at Sony marks a return, though, as he spent a considerable prior stretch at the pubco (in its Sony/ATV days). Some of his signings there are noted below. We asked Walter to tell us about the current publishing landscape and the arc of his own career. He promised to speak very slowly so we’d understand.
A lot of people in the biz know you were at UMPG before your new gig at SMP, but what they don’t know is that you were at Sony/ATV before that. So you have history with the company. Tell me a bit about that and working with, and for, Jon.
The first time I was hired by Sony, I’d been at ASCAP, which is where I met Jon, who was with EMI at the time—I’d put these events together for the EMI writers. Then Sony hired me, which was my first shot at the game of music publishing. I signed Alessia Cara, G-Eazy and A$AP Rocky. It was a really good run.
As far as Universal, you know when it's time to make a change, do something different and go somewhere different, to grow as an executive. I knew that time had come for me at Universal. I didn’t know it would lead me back to Sony, though. You start having conversations and consulting with people. Jon was one of the people I spoke with, and I fit into his vision for the company. It's only been a few weeks, but it's great.
Even so, you’ve likely noticed the change in the culture Jon’s inspired.
Absolutely. The pace has picked up. And there’s a new decisiveness—Jon’s done the A&R job; he knows when the signing is right. Culturally, it's very inviting. I look forward to being able to build the culture with the writers now that we're coming out of the pandemic; we'll get to see what type of culture we can create in person.
How do you see the current A&R landscape? Platforms like TikTok are now a major consideration.
When I first started, one of the things you could be certain of was that if a big, heavy-hitter star was releasing music, they were gonna take up some space on radio, on the charts. I think that's not always the case now. On the other hand, an artist who’s taking up space on TikTok might be able to take up space on radio as well if they get the right label partner.
And they could be streaming before they even have a label partner.
Exactly. You have to be aware of what’s happening on every platform. And then you have to choose right. As a publisher, you don't get to just swing, because this is someone's career in your hands. So you want to be right; you want to make sure that if it's jumping off TikTok, there's life after that one record.
When you’re looking around at things showing signs of reactivity, what are you looking for at the song level?
For me, it’s actually about digging deeper. The song that's jumping off the charts or spreading virally, those are easy to identify. The real question is: Can I work with you? Can you work with others? I heard this phrase a while ago; someone was called a “basement Mozart”—there's this writer who can just do everything, but they're stuck in the basement. I don't know if that really works for the collaborative publisher or in today's business at all. I need to know that you can go into a room and be collaborative, that you can get in where you fit in.
It's what they're gonna do next.
Yes, what are they gonna do next? What is their vision, their character? How do they respond to people being critical of their ideas. Those things matter to me—their temperament. You'd be shocked by how many writers and producers go to a studio and the owner or engineers say, “Please don't ever send them back.” So I've never chased the hit record; I’ve just chased the people I felt had the energy to provide something in the room. Again, I want somebody who can show me something after the viral song, after the chart hit.
"The song that's jumping off the charts or spreading virally, those are easy to identify. The real question is: Can I work with you? Can you work with others?"
These giant catalog deals are consuming so much of the oxygen in the conversation about publishing. Where do you think we are in terms of song valuation, the kinds of deals people are doing, the new players throwing down and where the traditional large publisher fits into the new equation?
I've been fortunate to work with people who are very attached to songs and songwriters. And I think there's a gap between the real, personal attachment to songs and songwriters and a catalog. Some people just see the investment.
So I think where we fit in as publishers is our passion. There's a touch, a certain consideration and care for those catalogs—it hurts if you don’t get to work with a catalog or writer you're attached to. With some of the other deals that are being made, there may not be that level of attachment. It’s a business, ultimately, but it's almost like selling your home; you want to make sure somebody can appreciate it as much as you did when you first called it home.
These deals are a sign of the times. The more mature artists may feel their songs are in good hands that way. And some of the younger catalog holders may not care as much—it's a transaction, and they're happy to walk away with 15-, 20-times-multiple, or whatever the numbers are these days. I do believe, though, that there are writers with special catalogs, and they're very specific about who they want to look after those catalogs, after their babies. I hope today's hitmakers care about the hands their catalogs are in. Because I care.
Tell me something about your early life, where you grew up, when music first became important to you, how you ended up in the game.
I grew up in Brooklyn. I was raised by my aunt—my mother's sister—and my grandmother. We went to church every weekend and my grandma sang in the choir. She was also one of the choir directors at our elementary school. She tried to get me and my siblings to sing in church. Didn't work. She tried to get me to play piano in church. That didn't work.
You didn’t want to sing?
I’d sing flat on purpose! What I did want to do was be a DJ. It was always in my head. I’d go to my father’s house and his brother had these turntables set up. I’d see these movies and shows with DJs. And vinyl was always a big part of our life at home. Whether it was the Guy album or the Michael Jackson Bad album—something was always out, and I’d mess with the records. A family friend gave me my first set of turntables. I put together my whole system.
I went to an all-boy high school. My friends and I shared this passion for music, and we began to throw these parties and DJ. That carried on into college. I went to Clark Atlanta University as a Mass Communications major. That was around the time “Hotlanta” was becoming a thing, taking off on a national level. I was down there with some super-talented people, including music producers and DJs. It was just part of the culture in Atlanta at the time—it seemed like everyone was either a DJ or a party promoter—and I fell right into it.
In the summers I had internships at BMG, TVT Music Publishing (working under the leadership of Leotis Clyburn), New Line Cinema… When I graduated, I went back to New York and began interning at ASCAP. My mentor at the time, [manager] Jerrell Allen, had asked me if I knew anything about music publishing; he sent me to ASCAP to learn about that part of the business.
I met Jeanie Weems, who was the head of the Rhythm & Soul membership group, and [then-New York membership rep] Kenny Ferracho, who said, “When can you start?” I said, “Today.” It went really well.
But at the same time, I'm DJing and I build a relationship with Montell Jordan; I went on tour with him as his tour manager and DJ. I got to travel all over the world at age 21. I’m performing “This Is How We Do It” with Montell Jordan—that was fun.
I worked with an independent soul artist, Eric Roberson. I learned so much from him. I also worked really closely with another soul artist, Algebra Blessett. I was kind of between hip-hop, R&B, soul and neo-soul. I was all over the place. Eventually, ASCAP hired me.
Do you ever DJ nowadays?
At home with my kids. We have these… Well, they call ’em dance parties.
Photos (from top): Jones with Cara; (l-r) attorney Uwonda Carter Scott, Jones, Lil Yachty, Quality Control EVP A&R Brandra Ringo and QC co-founder/COO Coach K; Jones with manager Jeff Robinson and H.E.R.
