KENNY GAMBLE: THE HITS INTERVIEW

Kenny Gamble and his longtime creative collaborators Leon Huff and Thom Bell are the architects of what’s known—and revered—as The Sound of Philadelphia.

The records they made in the 1970s, characterized by indelible melodies, celestial harmonies, muscular grooves and symphonic ambition, dominated the charts and became a cornerstone of the R&B pantheon. Philadelphia International, the label launched by “The Mighty Three” in 1971, stood beside Motown and Stax as a preeminent purveyor of impeccable soul music.

The team notched an astounding 175 gold and platinum records, including legendary work by the likes of Teddy Pendergrass, Patti LaBelle, Lou Rawls, The O’Jays, Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes, Dusty Springfield, The Three Degrees, Billy Paul and MFSB, to name a few.

Songwriting-producing partners Gamble and Huff, who in 2008 were the inaugural recipients of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame’s Ahmet Ertegun Award, recently made the PR rounds in celebration of their partnership’s 50th anniversary. Our friend Dyana Williams, a major player in radio and other media and the “Mother of Black Music Month” (for which Gamble led the charge) was formerly married to Gamble and remains his friend and champion. She is thus uniquely qualified to go deep.

Let’s go back to your native Philadelphia. Can you share some memories of music you heard growing up that eventually influenced you?

The first one that pops into my head is Frankie Lymon & The Teenagers. And that’s just the act―I didn’t know who the producer was. But I found out later that it was Richard Barrett, a brilliant, brilliant man who discovered Frankie Lymon and [girl group] The Chantels. That was the New York Sound. At least that’s what I call it now. The Chantels had some of the greatest songs, including a love song called “Maybe.” These were the bump-and-grind, groovy grooves way back in the ’50s.

This is the same Richard Barrett who’d go on to manage and write for The Three Degrees. You and Huff had massive success with those ladies when you wrote and produced 1974’s “When Will I See You Again,” as well as the theme song to Soul Train and “TSOP (The Sound of Philadelphia),” by MFSB, which featured The Three Degrees.

Yes, Richard developed The Three Degrees and we had an opportunity to work together. It was beautiful to know him.

Growing up in South Philadelphia, you were connected to a church that influenced you.

The United House of Prayer for All People. A lot of people know it as Daddy Grace’s Church. I tried to make it there as often as I could to hear that music and join in the vibration they gave off. It’s a great thrill to be able to think of the Daddy Grace Church and how much soul and spirit he would cast on anyone that came through its doors.

This church was a place with trombones and trumpets, drums and, of course, the human element—the different hand claps, for one thing—where people would get so excited and realize that music is something given to all of us. It’s a great thing and it’s cherished by the congregation of the House of Prayer. I’m proud of that church, that they’ve been able to hold onto that spirit all these years.

Early on you were a recording artist and had a band, Kenny Gamble & the Romeos.

Wow, you are going way back now, Dyana, but it’s always good to remember. When I first started out, I wanted to be a singer. I used to sing locally at events and try to write songs. It’s hard to do something like that when you have no one to help you. It was very hard in those days, anyway.

What do you recall of those first songs?

There were songs I did with my brother Charles and my cousin Earl. Jack Hart, who was a member of The Trammps, lived close to us. He was part of a group called The Ordells. God bless those guys.

How old were you when you started exploring songwriting and who were some of your influences?

I was a teenager. After Frankie Lymon there was Herb Johnson, who had a hit called “Guilty,” among others. He inspired me to learn as much as I could about being an artist and a songwriter.

You were 17 when you signed to Columbia Records and released “You Don’t Know What You Got Until You Lose It,” so you were a professional songwriter by then. But when did you learn what a producer does?

I found out exactly what a producer does, as well as the structure of the industry, from [Philadelphia producer, A&R exec and label owner] Jerry Ross. I stumbled into his office one day. I wasn’t even completely sure Ross and Associates was a music company. I was lucky to meet a guy like Jerry. He was my mentor; he taught me.

The two of you wrote “I’m Gonna Make You Love Me,” which was [jointly] a #2 Pop hit for Diana Ross & the Supremes and The Temptations [in January 1969].

Yeah, that was a great song. We did it very quickly. We were fired up: “Come on, let’s write a song!” It was originally for Dee Dee Warwick, Dionne Warwick’s sister. It came off pretty good, and the people at Mercury Records really liked the song. Nick Ashford and Valerie Simpson were responsible for taking it to Motown, and Nick produced it for Diana Ross & the Supremes. So when I first heard it on the radio, I had to pull my car over, because that was a shock—The Temptations were my favorite group, and The Supremes, of course… They were supreme! So when I heard that, I was like a madman. I still feel that way about it.

My good friend [Temptations co-founder] Otis Williams told me recently that they’re planning to use the song again in the Broadway musical Ain’t Too Proud. Matter of fact, it really is the showstopper of the whole thing.

Speaking of radio, when we were growing up in Philadelphia WDAS was a powerhouse station with legendary radio personalities like Lord Fauntleroy, Jimmy Bishop, Louise Williams, Kay Williams, Carl Helm…

So many talented disc jockeys. There were others, too: Joe “Butterball” Tamburro, Jocko Henderson, Louise Williams-Bishop… And there’s a Fat Daddy in every city!

You began your relationship with music as a consumer, growing up listening to this radio station and buying the records. Then you were running errands for the station and eventually becoming friends with all those jocks, who went on to play your music.

We couldn’t have made it without Max Leon, the owner of WDAS. He was good people. I’d been a gofer there, working for tips. I used to get Max’s sandwiches. Later, Max would say, “Kenny, we knew you were going to make it.” Cody Anderson, the GM, was beyond supportive―he’d even call me sometimes and ask, “You got new records?”

Another person who was very helpful was Jerry Blavat, “The Geator with the Heater and the Big Boss With the Hot Sauce.” [Per the Philadelphia Inquirer, “Blavat came up with his nickname early on as a variation on ‘gator,’ because his radio show would eat you up like an alligator.”] So many people were involved in elevating Philadelphia International Records and my career as a songwriter-producer. Of course, the listeners were the most important.

In the summer of 1964 you met Leon Huff in an elevator in the Schubert Building on Broad Street in Philadelphia. You immediately identified each other as songwriters and musicians and started collaborating. You went on to have a steady string of hits with Wilson Pickett, Dusty Springfield, The Soul Survivors, Jerry Butler and The Intruders. You dominated the charts and got airplay into the ’70s with these singles, which you produced as well; you were producing back-to-back hits like “Engine #9,” “Only the Strong Survive,” “Expressway to Your Heart” and “Brand New Me.” What was your experience like as a producer?

We were building our infrastructure, which included the Romeos band we already had, the studio musicians and the great Joe Tarsia and his Sigma Sound Studios. Sigma had the best fidelity and quality, not a lot of pops and hisses. We also had masterful, creative musicians like Lenny Pakula, Vince Montana, Bobby Martin and Jack Faith. [Songwriter-musician] Vinnie Barrett, the magical lyricist Linda Creed, who was Thom Bell’s partner, and others helped to build our sound. Thom Bell… I can hardly believe Tommy has left us. He was a great guy. [Bell died in 2022.]

Some wonderful women were part of our Philly International family―and we were mostly appealing to female consumers. Aside from Linda and Vinnie, there was Cynthia Biggs, The Sweethearts, Barbara Ingram, Carla Benson, Evette Benton… I’m also thankful for Elaine Johnson, our executive assistant.

Harry Coombs, the head of promotion and marketing, President Chuck Gamble, our community-affairs team of Lawrence Johnson and Harold Preston… I could go on.

These people and others were a big part of what made us successful. We built up these relationships over time. So it was a heck of a process that didn’t all happen overnight, but we built an infrastructure that lasted over 50 years.

I felt handicapped by the fact that I didn’t know how to read or write music. Sometimes I felt out of place. I played a little guitar, but I used my voice as an instrument―I would hum and sing the melodies I wanted to hear on the vibes or violin or saxophone. I’d say something to our arranger Bobby Martin and Thom Bell and they’d write it down. They were very helpful to my development as a producer.

It was like when we were standing on the corner singing doo-wop songs; everybody joins in and gets it going. But you still gotta have a song, a feeling everybody wants to gravitate toward. We had those songs. I grew more confident with time—and hit records!

You’re universally regarded as one of the architects of the Philly Sound. How did that coalesce?

Motown was the inspiration for Huff and me; we give credit to Motown for being able to assemble a great group of people who worked together. Berry Gordy, who was a successful songwriter-producer in his own right, created opportunities for some of the world’s greatest songwriters and producers, not to mention the superstar artists on his label. On my first airplane ride, Huff and I went to Detroit to explore working with Motown. It was impressive, and I still have the greatest admiration for Berry Gordy. But at the end of the day, Huff and I decided to return to Philly and set up our own record company.

The roster of Philadelphia International Records included Teddy Pendergrass, Patti LaBelle, Lou Rawls, The O’Jays, Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes, The Three Degrees, Billy Paul, MFSB, Phyllis Hyman, Dee Dee Sharp, Jean Carne, The Jones Girls, People’s Choice, The Intruders… And in addition to you, Huff and Thom Bell, there were several other producer-songwriters, who, in a few cases, were also artists on the label: McFadden & Whitehead, Dexter Wansel, Bunny Sigler, Baker, Harris & Young… How did the work of such a varied group of creative people come to define the Philly Sound?

We produced a lot of songs with classic melodies. We had an orchestra with retired violinists and cellists from the Philadelphia Orchestra, Don Renaldo Strings and Daddy Grace’s horns. We mixed it all together with a new way of thinking. We had the hope of educating our people and contributing something to society, and people could grow with our progressive music. Our music was for everybody and everybody was for our music.

Was there a formula?

Well, Huff and I would have meetings every day to discuss the artist we were getting ready to record and which staff writers would best fit that artist’s vocal style and persona. The O’Jays stand out in that context because Walter Williams, Eddie Levert and Sammy Strain had such distinctive harmony with each other, and they were a pleasure to work with. And Sherman Marshall, aka Mr. Slim, wrote “The Whole Town Laughing at Me” for Teddy Pendergrass. It wasn’t necessarily something that would make everybody say, “That’s a #1 record.” But it fit Teddy and got a lot of international airplay.

What elements are necessary to becoming a successful producer?

The song is absolutely the most important thing. Having a real connection to the music is also essential. And assembling the best musicians, arrangers and engineers to enhance the process. Being mindful of the time spent to complete the recording sessions and keeping track of the budget is paramount. The producer is the captain of the ship, the master navigator, charting the direction of the entire recording process.

What we were doing at Philly International was connecting songs to people’s experiences. Years ago, I was speaking with TV producer Norman Lear, and he said that Thanksgiving was one holiday where no religion was involved, just family. He was right. Huff and I wrote “Family Reunion” for the O’Jays.

Numerous producers―Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis come to mind―have cited you and Huff as inspirations.

Jimmy and Terry, those are my guys. They are powerful, and their catalog? Classics. We hope that the body of work we’ve created as producers and songwriters continues to lift up others to follow our path of brotherhood and sisterhood as creators.

What do you see as your musical legacy?

Message in the music. We made music that stands the test of time.