WILLIE + MERLE: FIFTH TIME’S THE CHARM
They are like the faces on Mount Rushmore. The songs alone tell the story: “Mama Tried,” “On the Road Again,” “Think I’ll Just Stay Here and Drink,” “Angel Flying Too Close to the Ground,” “Okie From Muskogee,” “Always on My Mind,” “Fightin’ Side of Me,” “Bloody Mary Morning,” as well as the #1 “Pancho & Lefty” single and album in 1985. Not to mention the movie roles, activism, books, tours and a whole lotta living. Willie Nelson and Merle Haggard have been American roots icons since the ‘70s—and most recently the owners of the #1 Country and #7 album debut Django & Jimmie, released on Legacy late last month. (See our review in Critics’ Choice.)
Fiercely independent, both men embody the essence of classic country even when they push the envelope. On their fifth collaboration in 50 years, the pair fold in some roadhouse shufflin’ blues (“It’s Only Money”), classic balladry (“Unfair Weather Friend,” “Where Dreams Go To Die”), their own classics (Haggard sings Nelson’s “Family Bible,” Nelson tackles Haggard’s “Swingin Doors” and they share Bob Dylan’s “Don’t Think Twice”) and homages to their influences Django Rinehart and Jimmie Rodgers, as well as romping through the jaunty “It’s All Goin’ to Pot,” released on 4/22.
How did it feel to have #1 country album?
WILLIE: The world with terrestrial radio has changed so much, we’re not getting any AM or FM airplay, really. We didn’t have that to count on, so it sorta surprised me when it went to #1 on the first day. I thought even if it did, it would take a little longer.
But there we were with a #1 record, so we felt like we succeeded. That’s inspiring! The idea peoplethat want to hear what we have to say—it makes me write a little bit every day, I get it out. When there’s something to write, I put it down, so it feels good.
You’ve got a song, Merle, called “The Only Man Wilder Than Me.”
MERLE: That was probably the only song I wasn’t totally sold on, but Willie liked it—and likes it a lot. So did some of the other fellows. I’ll be damned wrong again.
Which of you is it?
MERLE: By no talent of my own, it worked perfectly. I started it on the phone, wrote the first, then called Willie. Or maybe texted. He sent the second verse right back, and the bridge just kinda took care of itself. You know, it was just done.
But the wild part…
MERLE: Everybody wants to be wilder than it’s accepted to be. They wanna do and be more than people think is right. You know that saying: well-behaved women seldom make history? It’s not just for women, you know. It’s men, too. Well-behaved men? [laughs] Step out of line, and you become remembered. Because you stood out. Though old as I am, it’s hard to step anywhere, let alone out of line.
Are you saying you guys are slowing down?
MERLE: Look, you gotta have a license to trim your own trees now, a license for your dog, a license for everything. But I think I’ve got all the license I need.
Like dropping “It’s All Goin’ to Pot” on 4/22?
WILLIE: That song is so great. That’s one of those ones you know people are just gonna love—and it makes recording pretty fun. That song? And those players? You know you’re doing something special—and it was a natural. The timing was perfect.
You’ve both been pretty vocal about your love of cannabis.
WILLIE: Other parts of the world are more evolved and handle this stuff better. If you look at Copenhagen, then here—we’re a little dumber, a little more redneck in our attitudes. But Colorado has been doing very well and showing the rest of the country how this can go. And all that money? For the people who care about that, look at the numbers. It might be the medical use or just figuring out that it’s not going away, plus there’s a whole of money these bottom-liners can pick that up, which works for some people.
MERLE: I like the insinuation of giving up pills and giving up whiskey. The idea that Grandma won’t get whipped anymore, the little girl won’t get molested because some guy’s not getting drunk and mean. That’s a big deal. Marijuana doesn’t make you drunk, but the reasons against are the financial aspects of the alcohol industry, the Valium and Diazepam, because of how big those industries are. The financial implications are enormous.
How does teaming up change your music?
WILLIE: There’s a creative thing that happens: you can do something with another person that’s something you can’t do on your own—because it comes from the combined energy. Two people can just make more music than one.
MERLE: There are things that wouldn’t get considered on our own. We’re both writers and have an excellent understanding of songs, so the focus isn’t on who wrote it, but what’s there and how does it work. You got a love song, we can sing it together—and it’s about her, the woman you love, not to [laughs] the man.
And you obviously share influences, starting with Django Reinhardt and Jimmie Rodgers.
WILLIE: I have a little poker room I call Django’s in my hideaway in Oahu. He was the best guitar player who ever lived. Ever. I listen to him every day. And Jimmie Rodgers was one of the original country singers, who paved the way and defined everything. “Blue Yodel #1” is one of those songs you hear and never forget.
MERLE: We chased the same heroes: Django and Roy Nichols as guitarists when we were young. Plus Gene Autry and Lefty Frizzell, Bob Wills and Ernest Tubb, those people who were playing the dancehalls when America was still really alive.
Seems like the stars were livelier back when. Look at the song “Johnny Cash,” which features your buddy, Hall of Famer Bobby Bare.
WILLIE: He was a good friend—and we went around the world a few times together, him and Waylon and Kris. He’d call me up, and want me to tell him a good joke.
Is the story about roasting hot dogs on Popsicle sticks in the back of a limo true?
WILLIE: Merle was the one who knew, honestly. But pretty much everything you heard about John was true. It’s how we lived—and we wanted to treat the song that way.
Do you think the music makes you that way?
WILLIE: Something in the music makes you want to sing along, and dance, and jump up and down. I don’t know anything else that makes you do that—not even golf. So I think it does keep you young. Anything that keeps you young would make you want to sing and clap your hands.
MERLE: It says a lot about my relationship with my young wife. People think my wife is with me for many other reasons, but I think it’s that she likes me. I don’t put her on a tether and she still comes around. Think about that.
You guys have a lot more in common than people realize.
MERLE: Willie will agree—a lot of our lives have paralleled. It came about when we were talking, and the songs grew out of that. We started at the same time, admired the same people. We were both bass players for major stars early in our careers. Both of us were songwriters who wrote songs other stars had hits with. We both had a tough time getting through, because we want to do it our own way.
I told Willie we’ve both married almost the same amount of time to two younger ladies who love their husbands. We even had bass players die within a few days of each other, Kevin passed, then a few days later, Bee Spears died too. Then we both hired bass players who’d worked with Dwight Yoakam.
You’re obviously the kind of friends you can just pick up and make music. Any more plans?
MERLE: Well, we didn’t run out of songs; these are just the ones who made it to the tape. There are plenty more.
WILLIE: It’s too early to plan anything. It just went to #1, you know, and I wanna enjoy it for a little bit without just moving on to the next thing. Merle was on the Fourth of July Picnic [outside Austin], and we’ve already done some shows together. So we’ll probably do some more, but we’re not planning right yet, we’re just being.
